Geraldine Cole, on Lesbian Mothers National Defense Fund

We started the Lesbian Mothers National Defense Fund. ... A lot of it was realizing that -- identifying as a lesbian mother, and knowing that I was safe, in that nobody was going to try and take my child from me. And because I was safe, that I had an obligation, in essence, to do something for the people who weren't. ...

Almost all except for me and [one other woman], at the time -- almost all lesbian mothers were married women who had children and came out. And lots of them had troubles with their husbands -- their husbands tried to take their kids away from them, and usually did. And not just husbands but parents --

Interviewer: Because they were lesbians.

Geraldine: Right, yes. That was the only reason. And you had to be a perfect mother. You couldn't be an average mother and you couldn't make mistakes. And people did make mistakes -- and at that point they would lose in court all the time. There were very few cases where, if your husband challenged you for custody and said it was because you were lesbian, that you didn't get your kids taken away. It was almost always. Not that all men fought for custody -- some of them who fought and won and then had the kids, gave them back. That was not uncommon. ...

Once we started the Defense Fund, of course, what we mostly heard about was the trouble. ...

There was [a case] in Ohio -- and then we also knew about this case in Eatonville [Washington] -- where people needed help! ... Basically what we did is, we had a meeting and put out a flyer, and we mailed it to everybody we could think of around the country. Then the mail started coming. And the phone calls started coming. And the organization just grew from that.

And we got cases from all over the country. I mean, from Fayetteville, Arkansas and -- astonishing places. It's like, "What are you thinking? Get out of town!" ...

There were these women in Eatonville, Nancy and Marilyn. ... I think they met in church, and they were both married and they both had -- I think three, at least, children. As I recall, they fell in love and were so excited about it, they just told everybody! And their husbands just didn't take it well. They were in that bright-eyed, Phase One thing, and their world totally falls apart. It was very vicious. ...

We got pretty involved with them, and helped them find lawyers, and helped pay for them, and helped with strategy did all kinds of stuff. I remember once, we went down and harvested comfrey --

Interviewer: To help?

Geraldine: Yeah. [laughter] ...

I think they found us astonishing. Nothing they'd ever imagined in their lives. Of course, they'd never imagined themselves, let alone what all the rest of us, would be like. ...

We must have been kind of overwhelming for them. I'm sure they were very happy to have our support and all that, but they must have just shook their heads. ...

Interviewer: Did they ultimately win?

Geraldine: I don't think so. I don't think so. I think it was mixed, and I can't remember the details. ...

immediately, from the first day, we had cases -- where people would call. And of course, it was my phone number, so I did the intake. So it was really a huge part of my life. ...

One of the reasons I really liked doing the Defense Fund work was that it was actual, real service work that was real, that you could put your hands on, that was needed. ...

And we really helped people, and changed people's lives and stuff, and I liked that. I liked being an expert in something. You know, I'm going to conferences and telling lawyers what they ought to know. I was very young at the time, and I was able to take a leadership role in -- in real life. 23-year-olds don't take leadership in that way.

[later, in general discussion about lesbian political groups in the 70s]

What I think is so funny now is -- people talk about politics and meetings and group dynamics and all this stuff. And it's like, "My God! This is just baby stuff! I was dealing with way more than this when you were in diapers!" If you can be in a contentious meeting with 30 lesbians, and live through it, then there is nothing you can't handle. It was totally like graduate school in organizational development, and group psychology, and everything.

And I haven't been daunted by anything since.

Geraldine Cole, interview by NWLGHMP, tape recording, Seattle, WA, 1 January 2004.